Reminds me of Sarnath.

Can someone please tell us what is the message on these inscriptions? This is besides their archaeological importance.

Vipin Goyal : Most impressive !! Thank you ! How were you able to read this...it is very faint even upon zooming the picture. Is it written in Pali or Prakrit ? Do you have any other source for the translation.

Zoomify Image of the Ashoka Pillar : http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/photocoll/a/zoomify63233.html

Buddhism was a major religion in the Indian sub continent at that time. What happened? Growing up, our text books and popular discourse gave the impression that it just a sub-text of our history. Why so?

@ V B Goyal Wow!

Buddhism was a direct threat to Hinduism...so much so that Buddha was appropriated as one of Hinduism's Dashavatars....or so I have heard. Would be glad to know more from our inhouse experts.

Yeah thats why I raised the question. :)

Vikram : Maybe Charles Eliot's books will throw some answers. Posted them just now...taking a cue from your question.

I don't know about in house experts or threat to Hinduism but yes Buddhism is much more than just a footnote in India's history. The period around 6th century BCE was an age of ferment , what has often been called an Axial age; where systems of production and correspondingly belief changed radically in large parts of the world specially Asia. Witness Mahavira, Buddha, Zoroaster. In the Jambudweepa ie India of the time Vedic pastoral life was giving way to an agricultural society; old beliefs and rites specially based on sacrificial yagnas did not fit in to the new system. There was the generation of a bigger and bigger surplus and a powerful class of merchants also sprang up in the rapidly growing urban centres. Siddhartha Gautam was a prodigy in many ways who soaked up the extant spiritual knowledge and established an order which was phenomenally popular even during his lifetime. For the most part it was because the local Kings, Chieftains and merchants took to this creed which was more suited to an agrarian urban lifestyle. As the wealth and power of these merchants multiplied so did the 'new' religion...it went up the Uttarapath and down the Dakshinapath with these merchants ( most old Buddhist Viharas are around these two grand trade routes). There were tensions between HIndus, Buddhists and Jains certainly but since all of them derive from the same source they could co exist peacefully. Also because rulers normally gave some patronage to all of them even if they favored one as Ashoka did( or Chandragupta Maurya who was a Jain) There were also numerous other sects which were very popular but have since died out...e.g. the Ajivikas ( a ' threat' to the Buddhists and therefore the recipients of much calumny in Buddhist texts) which died out in the 14th century. The Guptas did re establish Brahmanical Hinduism but since they were more or less localised in Northern India it was left to Adi Shankaracharya to successfully re establish the Sanatan Dharma as the premier religious way of life of the sub continent. As the Buddha had tweaked the Upanishads to establish his way of enlightenment so did Adi Shankaracharya co mingle Upanishadic tenets with his own vision and some bits of Buddhist practices and re kindle the Hindu faith. He was helped by the fact that Buddhist monasteries had by then become repositories of wealth and power and had moved far far away from the actual teachings of the Buddha. Adi Shankaracharya had to famously defeat Mandan Mishra and his wife Bharati in his quest to popularise his own Advaita Hinduism. Due to this re kindling of Sanatana Dharma and more importantly, the wiping out of the rich Buddhist monasteries by Turkish invaders as well as small in house conflicts with Hindu Kings this faith subsided into only a nominal existence in India. It has received a new lease of life with the neo Buddhist movement started by B R Ambedkar. As far as co opting as one of the avatars is concerned it is the defining feature of the Hindu Dharma, I would think. Right from thousands of years ago it has embraced and synthesised all the systems of belief it has found...otherwise this vast and complicated sub continent would have been in a thousand splinters. This is a large topic and must be dealt with separately but witness the fact that Lord Shiva has been appropriated from the Indus Valley Civilisation, so has the concept of the Mother Goddess...VIshnu was not worshiped during Vedic times or Krishna during Mauryan times! ( I have a small bit written on Lord Krishna which parenthetically deals with this synthesis, will upload it if anyone is interested.)

@ Sumedha, pls upload the small bit which U have about Lord Krishna :) Thanks in Advance :)

Way to go Sumedha ! We are listening...

LORD KRISHNA In a land teeming with myths and legends, stories both sacred and secular, it is difficult to select one. The subject here, therefore, is a complex of stories revolving around one figure called by a myriad of names, with multiple facets, towering with an inscrutable smile above the Hindu pantheon, the lovable Hindu God, Krishna. The story is set down here with the caveat that a most complicated story with many differing strands in many local traditions cannot really be reduced to a few words; this is only a small attempt. Our story begins before the birth of the baby Krishna, at the marriage of his future parents, Devaki and Vasudeva being celebrated with pomp and magnificence by Devaki's loving brother but an evil ruler Kansa, the King of the Yadava Kingdom of Mathura. The festivities are rudely interrupted by a divine voice which says that the vile acts of Kansa can no longer be tolerated by mortals and the groaning earth shall be delivered by Devaki’s eighth son. Kansa is enraged by this and imprisons the newly married couple, systematically killing off all their offspring as they are born. The eighth son arrives in due course, in the dead of the night amidst thunder, torrential rain and lightning. The prison guards are miraculously put to sleep and Vasudeva places the baby in a reed basket upon his head to take him across the swollen river Yamuna to be reared in safety in the household of a supportive chieftain of the Yadavs in Vrindavan. The waters of the river part and Vasudeva walks across, exchanges the baby boy with the new born baby girl of the chieftain, Nanda and his wife, Yashoda, and walks back. The next day, Kansa tries to kill the baby girl only for her to slip out of his grasp, take the form of a Goddess and inform him that the boy who will kill him has already been born. Kansa institutes a search and kill operation for all new born babies but the baby Krishna surmounts all the demons sent by Kansa killing them and surviving unscathed. His boyhood is an idyll on the banks of the Yamuna in a pastoral community of cowherds. His romances with the Gopis or milkmaids are sung of even to this day. His consort Radha with whom his name is inextricably linked, is one of these Gopis. The young Krishna attains his destiny; goes with his foster brother, Balarama, to Mathura, kills his evil uncle Kansa in unarmed combat and restores the throne to his deposed grandfather. His chief role, however, is as the divine preceptor and guide in the epic battle for the control for the earth which is the subject matter of one of the two main epic poems of India, the Mahabharata. The fight is between the evil Kauravas and their dispossessed cousins, the Pandavas, who are the rightful heirs of the Kingdom. In the battle field he delivers to his friend- disciple, Arjuna, one of the Pandavas, the immortal precepts which have been the bedrock of Sanatana Dharma or Hinduism for thousands of years, the Bhagwat Geeta. This contains the essence of the wisdom of the Upanishads and is one of the central texts of Hinduism. The battle is won by the Pandavas after the almost complete annihilation of both the sides thanks largely to the tactics and strategy advocated by Lord Krishna. These are the bare bones, or even less, of the story surrounding Lord Krishna but each facet of his life is the subject of countless legends, all of them with different regional and community flavours. If I were to attempt a functional analysis of this complex of myths it would offer an insight into the development of the Indian subcontinent in the second and first millennium BC from an agglomeration of different tribes, communities and clans at different stages of material culture into a cohesive cultural unit culminating into a political unit under the Mauryan Kings in the 4th century BC. It would facilitate an understanding of the assimilation of incoming migrating tribes, who disseminated the Vedic fire sacrifice or Yagna, religious, cultural and linguistic complex, with the existing non Aryan groups. If society was to progress as a whole their mutual animosity had to be overcome and they had to work as a unit. The Vedic Aryans therefore assimilated the dark skinned hero of the Yadavas into the pantheon of their gods; Krishna is a non Vedic non Aryan god who better represented the combined ethos of the changing society. It was evolving into a settled agrarian society from a pastoral and nomadic existence. Gory animal sacrifices on a large scale were no longer acceptable or indeed possible as cattle wealth no longer existed on a significant scale. One important story of Lord Krishna’s childhood is precisely how he saves his followers from the wrath of Indra, a terrible Vedic god who was henceforth no longer evoked or offered his share at the sacred ceremonies. A subsidiary cult grew up around his brother Balarama or Sankarshana who was given the sacred weapon of the plough to propitiate agriculturists and watch over them. A variety

@Sumedha Verma Ojha: Superb piece of writing. Hope to see all of it in a book form.

@Sumedha: Thanks. I like your interpretation. Although, your text does raise some important questions. I like :)

Thank you Shekhar and Vikram ! Vikram I would love to discuss and amplify the questions raised? Shekhar, The book I have written on the Mautyan period as well as some other pieces of writing explore these issues . Desperately seeking publisher!

@Sumedha: "He was helped by the fact that Buddhist monasteries had by then become repositories of wealth and power and had moved far far away from the actual teachings of the Buddha." ---> can you point to some texts or references. I'd like to read more about this. I would also like to point out that Jainism is not even presented as a sub-text of our history. Where as it was one of the most important religions at the same time as Buddhism. Why so? :)

Sumedha : Your essay on Buddhism is brilliant ! Thanks..it is cogent, persuasive and extremely articulate. Such a delight to read. : )

Sumedha : Your article on Krishna is honestly the best I've ever read from a historical perspective. You have touched upon the inexplicable complexity of our various gods, their hierarchies, their links and relations....quite deftly. It requires great clarity of mind to even attempt such an exercise.....I was actually spell bound ! Thanks again.

@ RBS For a change I seem to be basking in the sunshine of your approval! :) Thank you! Vikram, I can only point you to some significant books on Ancient Indian History -Romila Thapar: Early India Interpretations of Early India ( among many others) -D D Kosambi: The Culture and Civilisation of Ancient India in Historical Outline -First 4 volumes of A People's History of India Aligarh Historians Society -Raychaudhuri's Political History of Ancient India -Bharatiya Vidya Bhavans 'The Age of imperial Unity -Ancient India as depicted in Jain and Buddhist Literature e.g. Jain's Ancient India as depicted in Jain Canon and Commentaries -To Uphold the World Bruce Rich Should keep you busy for some time :) Yes, the Jains did not gain the traction of the Buddhists. Perhaps their rules were very strict and did not spread as much. Also, great numbers of Jains were reconverted to Hinduism by Adi Shankaracharya.

Thank you again, RBS! And I promise not to swoop before you post. :)

Thank you Subbiah Yadalam!

PS- RBS How I wish you were a publisher and not only a reader of books!

@Sumedha: Can you throw some light on the rise and fall of Nalanda? It will be interesting to note how Buddhism was pushed out of India. I gather, contrary to belief that invading Turki armies destroyed Nalanda, Hindus also contributed to the destruction and pillage. You have refered to D.D. Kosambi. I presume that is Dharmanand Damodar Kosambi, father of Damodar Dharmanand Kosambi (confusing names, who is the father and who the son. But isn't child the father of Man?). The former is the father, latter the son. Both were historians. It is the former who has written extensively on history. The latter (the son) was a polymath, a historian and a scientist. He was the Director of TIFR for several years and one interesting detail was that he lived in Pune; commuted daily between Bombay and Pune by the Deccan Queen (First Class). I understand he had a contraption made which helped him write in the moving train (minimum 6 hours per day!).

@RBSI: Apropos Sumedha Verma Ojha's manuscript on the Mauryan period. May I suggest RBSI take the lead in finding a publisher? RBSI fans can buy a copy in advance. If you can lead a band of soldiers (Dutch-style to invest), I will be happy to join. You can work on a new business model called "co-publishing" for a special price for RBSI fans.

thank you so much for sending me this. Never seen the lower part before

@Sumedha: Thanks for the references. Here go my questions and queries: - You seem to have concluded that the Aryan's found the natives so worthy that they incorporated the native gods into their own mythology! Where as there are numerous evidence to suggest that the native rulers went out of their way to woo Aryan's and did a lot to have their blessings. I think you need to complicated your conclusion. - "If society was to progress as a whole their mutual animosity had to be overcome and they had to work as a unit. The Vedic Aryans therefore assimilated the dark skinned hero of the Yadavas into the pantheon of their gods..." ---> You've put the onus of wisdom, reasonableness, foresight, and magnanimity on the Aryans (reminds me of the British). While I have no issues with this, but I do believe its an over simplification and just an interpretation. - Why would the Aryans attribute their most important and defining text "Geeta" to a non-Aryan, Krishna? - Why only such a handful of native gods assimilated in the vedic culture/religion? Just some thoughts.

Hmm...valid doubts to extend this compelling discussion. Most importantly I like the tenor of the query and the ensuing articulate clarifications.

thanx Sumedha ji :)

@ Shekhar Sathe First I must say that your kind words yesterday have been a real encouragement! Its a lonely life out here as a writer...you kind of keep writing alone and struggle away...so good to receive some feedback! -Wrt Nalanda, I have a deep emotional attachment to the place as I was born and spent a lot of time in Patna and it was a favorite destination of my childhood. My detailed research has as yet taken me only up to the Mauryan period (and it has me completely hooked). Maybe i will write my next book on Nalanda! I have as yet focused more on Takshshila. Tradition dates some kind of institution existed in Nalanda since the 6th century BCE. There are also indications that during Mauryan times the place received royal patronage.The foundations for the ruins which are still standing were laid by the Guptas, however, although many other rulers and dynasties also contributed to the University and the buildings including famously, Harshavardhana and the palas of Bengal. It was sacked during the Turkish raids of the 12th century about 1127 I think, and never recovered. For an institution which stood for around 1800 years there is oodles of material to research out there and I am going to note your idea for future reference. Chinese sources specially 'The Monkey King' would be of interest, dont you think? -I was actually talking of Damodar Dharmanand Kosambi, the son. He is the one who made a breakthrough in the study of Ancient Indian history. I must confess to being very deeply influenced by his writings ( which may and do have their own imperfections and biases). His pioneering work on Indian Numismatics , his understanding of punch marked coins and the metallic content / weight of ancient coins has formed the basis of one of the key episodes in my book. Leftist historians are as suspect as anyone else of biases but I have found them good with facts. I am looking forward to reading his collected works, haven't read them all as yet.

@Vikram The idea I wanted to suggest in the article was more a gradual assimilation than a conqueror- conquered paradigm. I find it more and more difficult to believe in an Aryan invasion and native rulers theory as more information on the links between Central Asian and Central and South Indian peoples comes to light. Gradual phases of migration meant that different people mingled with each other and took from each other language, culture and social organisation. Austric, Dravidian and Aryan have each contributed to the warp and weft of India. Remember that it is we who are analyzing events thousands of years after they happened; the actual people or their intellectual flag bearers certainly did not sit down and attribute powerful gods, ideas or texts to each other. In actual fact given the 'aryan' bias of the times in which these texts were 'discovered' by the Europeans it was not at all part of 'accepted' understanding that hallowed 'Aryan' texts like the Vedas or the Upanishads had any Dravidian or Austric inputs. Analysis of the language of these texts, the evolution of religious and ritual practices, the importance of the worship of different divinities and a host of other subsidiary evidence points to assimilation. I would seriously recommend that you read 'Sanskriti ke Chaar Adhyaya' by Ramdhari Singh Dinkar on this subject. It makes for a provoking, informative and fascinating read. There is a novel called 'Vayam Rakshamah' by Chatursen Shastri, it is a re telling of the Ramayana but the first few chapters offer a theory on India; Aryans, Dravidians and mythology are located in the world. Again interesting but perhaps speculative. The divinities and ideas which were assimilated into the mainstream tradition, call it by whichever name you will ( it has as much right to be called Dravidian or Austric?), were actually too popular with people to be ignored. The mainstream could ignore it only at its peril; a good example is the worship of Lord Shiva. It was more a necessity than any magnanimity on anyone's part. After all these years only echoes of the dissonance/turbulence during the assimilation remain. Lord Krishna and his worship are an enigma. From where arose the power of this cult which soon over powered almost all other Gods in the pantheon is an intriguing question ( slightly irreverently but quite convincingly discussed by D D Kosambi!). The juggernaut rolled on and soon it subsumed many cults, divinities and worship under the Bhagwat-Vishnu system of worship. It is a point to note that in fairness obsessed India almost all the important Hindu Gods are dark! I may have simplified things a bit, I plead guilty to that...all in the interests of clarity? Reality is far more complex, I agree.

Regarding your "Leftist historians are as suspect as anyone else of biases but I have found them good with facts.", I think it is in their very ideology (historical materialism) to examine material conditions ("facts") for interpreting / explaining history as against relying on "beliefs"?

@ Deepak Ingawale Thank you. And, yes, it is part of the Marxist methodology which is one of the advantages of using it. Not when someone like D N Jha dismisses the facts he does not like cursorily, however! ( His analysis of the Guptas in his 'Ancient India') Beliefs, however, when they relate to events thousands of years ago for which direct evidence is not available should not be rejected out of hand. They can be logically considered and may yield useful insights, I feel.

Thanks Sumedha, I'll get busy with your references :) As for the gradual assimilation theory, I poke your some other time :) As to black gods of fairness obsessed Indians, I would not take it past the European arrival. By then our conception of gods and goddesses was already formalized. Waise except Krishna and Shankar, I don't remember any of the gods being depicted as dark skinned while I was growing up. Neither in the temples, the calenders, the diwali moorits, or any religious depiction I came across.

A few days ago I had come across an article on Dharmanand Kosambi in Hindustan Times.The article touchingly describes the persona of Dharmanand. http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/columns/A-beautiful-mind/Article1-577651.aspx

@Deepak Ingawale: Would you agree ideas are as much fact as material facts? It is as important to interpret beliefs as to rely on facts. Wasn't Marxism itself after all, an idea? This may not be the place to argue this point. However, I think the line of thought pursued by Sumedha is exciting and I am sure she will keep looking for corroborative material evidence as she goes along.

I couldn't agree more. However, interpretation is an iterative process since any idea or interpretation will impact several aspects and will have to be corroborated ultimately, at some point, directly or indirectly by material evidence. And historians - marxists included - should always have an open mind to accept new evidences as they surface. Yes, the line of thought pursued by Sumedha is certainly exciting and seems logical as well considering that the notion of "invasion" in itself seems outside the realm of feasibility in the context of a country of continental proportions and other factors such as limited knowledge of Geography, technology of warfare, dispersal of populations, etc. obtaining then.

@Deepak Ingawale: Very true. The black hole was the product of an idea, the material evidence of it was obtained decades later....I suppose even ideas of the bygone eras will leave material traces....like the bckground radiation from the big bang days!

A good example. But the "idea" was not conceived in thin air - so much of quantum mechanics and astrophysics based on observed and validated physical processes had to develop for the idea to spring up. It, in fact, conforms to the scientific process whereby a theory (or a hypothesis) should be able to predict events / developments that will go to validate (and even invalidate) itself.