The Lost World of Tibet (rare footage of Tibet in 1930s) 1/5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0y1CrcBio The Lost World of Tibet (rare footage of Tibet in 1930s) Part 2/5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2_oux3VmmU The Lost World of Tibet (rare footage of Tibet in 1930s) 3/5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkHdPVgraU The Lost World of Tibet (rare footage of Tibet in 1930s) 4/5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjfhAD70lXo The Lost World of Tibet (rare footage of Tibet in 1930s) 5/5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMZKwwPvE7w

This is a petition to protest at the Chinese repression in Tibet: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_tibetan_lives/?vl

@RBSI I hope you don't find the petition inappropriate.

Not at all Allen Copsey. If a few more signatures can help in which way, I am not sure... why not ? Tibet is one more sad story of our times.

I'm glad to see this petition here, I was going to write to RBSI for permission to post on this page. It's great to see that Tibet is your theme for the day. I will soon be watching a documentary called "Tibet; cry of the snow lion".

What beautiful people and fantastic country....I pray that they and their country wil be a happy one and not be destroyed by greed, anger and stupidity....the three poisons! NamuMyoHoRengeKyo

Thanks to Amita Roy for this article : Saving the Secret Towers By MITCH MOXLEY The ride from Chengdu to Danba Valley is one to be endured, not enjoyed. The journey is by a smoke-filled bus with tiny seats that barrels deep into the mountains of western Sichuan province, shaking and rattling on a single-lane road that is often strewn with fallen rocks. A hair-raising view out the window is of the Dadu River below. Read more : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304520804576342691798538726.html

... An interesting article (immediately above)... I can't really see much if any point in signing a petition that demands a ' halt to repression in Tibet' ... where will it be sent upon completion ~ Peking ? It is a great shame that traditional Tibetan culture is obliged to preserve itself in exile but the Chinese see Tibet as an integral part of their country (the claim that it always has been), and the West is far too cautious of invoking the wrath of the Red dragon to apply any genuine pressure ~ and so I suspect, sadly, that things will stay exactly as they are indefinitely.

@Julian Craig, I understand your viewpoint. The petition in this thread will be sent to the "six world leaders with the most influence in Beijing to send a mission to Tibet and speak out against the repression". I don't know whether it will make any difference but being so far away from the country personally all I can do is add my name to the petition so that my protest is registered. It may be futile but I hope it will give the Tibetan people some hope. Only saying this because I grew up in a country with a repressive regime and we appreciated international solidarity.

' @ ' Maya Sooka : to my mind (and with all due respect etc) petitions such as this one have only one purpose/ consequence ... and that is to make 'bleeding heart liberals' in the West (or wherever they may be) feel better about themselves... they serve no practical purpose, as I am sure anybody who might be unfortunate enough to live in Tibet would tell you (if they could)... In some respects they might even make conditions there worse by keeping the issue at the forefront of attention and thereby encouraging the Chinese authorities to crack down even harder (if that is possible)... It is my understanding that the Chinese government has been, for decades, encouraging massive ethnic Chinese immigration into Tibet from other parts of the country, to consolidate their claim that the region is an 'indigenous part of the mainland' (or however they describe it) and so the ' mythical' Tibet of circa 1955 when the Dalai Lama was booted out , no longer really exists... Even if, in the future, there is some 'liberalisation' of attitudes on the behalf of the Chinese ~ this will only be done at their behest and in their own time... If any community of Tibetans deserves ' realistic' support , it is the exile community in India ~ many of whom have had to overcome enormous odds to have 'escaped' across the border.

Petitions are important as a rallying point. Powers that be are not known to hear voices of petition unless it suits them. I have for the last few years wondered how much of Tibet exists inside Tibet and how much outside.I was once in geneva for a week and had the opportunity of seeing a large protest march of Tibetans.

... Every ' trendy/ leftie ' student in England would not consider themselves ready to go out for a night on the town without their ' FREE TIBET' badge, Shekhar ~ it's a pointless (if admirable) battle really,( a little bit like CND, Amnesty International, etc)... I once met the Dalai Lama... at Dharamsala ~ where I had gone to investigate The Church of St. John (in the Wilderness) at the breath-taking (for me ) altitude of 1750 meters ~ one of the oldest Christian churches in North India. I was obliged to queue in a long line of Tibetans for quite some time ~ and when it was my turn to meet the great saint, instead of falling upon the ground in holy prostration (as everybody else had done), I stepped forward and offered my hand for a shake ~ which, after a quick glance form his body-guard, he shook and then offered the following piece of cosmic, spiritual wisdom : "You must be British !"

he would not say that to me if I were to offer a handshake! Tibet is the only reason why India and China do not see eye to eye! from the days of Chow en lai!

for all it's romanticism I will never forget the "Lost Horizon" and the high priestess of Shangrila!

... India should recieve a round of applause from the West (and the various members of 'trendy' causes) for all it has done to support the 'democratic Tibetans' despite the potential for damaging its relationship with China... (Nb. To be honest, Tibet wasn't very democratic in the old days ~ it was an obsolute theocracy run by chanting monks)

In th olden days...most countries were not democratic.

This has turned into a rich and informative discussion, thanks all! I know that by adding my name to a petition I'm making very little if any difference but thre are cases where petitions are good for raising awareness. I'm wondering what would happen if the 'world' went completely silent on difficult issues because our voices don't make a difference? I've always grappled with how to react and involve myself in situations where solidarity is needed...and not because I'm a bleeding-heart liberal but because I believe that showing solidarity and support is important. The tragedy of Tibet is that the world is standing by while a culture and language is being eroded. I don't have the answers but...now I do want to write to the Avaaz.org petition people about the points made in this discussion.

@Maya: Indeed. The individual voice is very small, the action trivial but if the voice is silent and the action not taken, the silence is total. Politicians are natural cowards, before they do anything, before they stand up to a bully, they have to have a big gang behind them. Petitions (and T-shirts worn by clubbers) both spread the word and encourage those whose voice may be noticed.

@RBSI: You are right that democracy is new but there was a time before their kings and queens. I'd also suggest that limited communications and poor travel meant that many areas were more or less autonomous. Good communications and transport is both a blessing and a curse. (Admittedly, probably more the former than the latter :)

Interesting observation made by Julian Craig above ! If democracy is indeed a ridiculous concept...it now makes me wonder why then should the western countries attack soveriegn nations ruled by dictators (who stayed in power by the blessings of the western nations) and try to bring about 'democracy' for the people. Tibet is an old sad story...but how many more countries are yet being destroyed by politicians who are being cheer led by ordinary people like us, who are just plain cannon-fodder. How many millions have died and are still dying. The degradation of human compassion has hit such a level...that even this comment would be vociferously condemned and ridiculed...I am sure. During their times I am sure... every humanist and saint...would have been called a 'bleeding heart liberal'. How would the world have been without them...we can only imagine.

While I appreciate the call to support the Tibetan cause, I cannot understand the romantic infatuation with "culture and language". Do the supporters really want to be a part of that theocratic culture and speak that language, live that life? The support should be limited to the fight against the suppression of democratic rights and the freedom of a people to preside over their own destiny.

No where in the world freedom is granted by signing petitions . It has to be won by using whatever means available and fighting for it.

>> romantic infatuation with "culture and language" You can start trying, I still think its not too late. :-P

RBSI ~ "Democracy is an excuse for consulting everybody and doing what nobody wants !" ... and so said the Earl of Romney...

@Nitin It is true that the Chinese govt is probably not going to change much on account of a petition, but the people who will have to do the fighting, and dying, might like to know that there are others who support and may help them; that they are not entirely alone. Besides this is not so much about freedom as trying to persuade the Chinese to ease up on their current policy of swamping Tibet with ethnic Chinese, ie to dilute Tibet until it is no longer distinguishable.

Julain that is a brilliant quote by the Earl of Romney which you have shared.Here is another one that I love " Politics is the world's second oldest profession and it bears close resemblence to the first" ~ Ronald Raegan

Democracy is the art of governance that affords us the opportunity to choose our new tormentors !

Yet we would never want to be subjected to any other form of governance whatever the earls may say! In case of Ronald Raegan, I don't know from which movie the line was taken.

... I disagree Shekhar ~ I would rather be ' subjected ' to the governance of Earls (ie. by a heriditary aristocracy/ monarchy) who serve their country as a matter of 'honour' and as a matter of 'duty' ~ rather than by a bunch of demi-crooks who ,at best, are only interested in serving the particular concerns of their own narrow political faction, or at worst, their own personal self-ineterst ... Democracy is a very modern notion ~ and to date has produced mixed results... nor should one make the mistake of associating 'Democracy' with ' liberty', which is a far, far older concept, both in theory and in historical practise ...

The solution to what ails nascent democracies is even more democracy not less. Until such time that a new system of governance is evolved by mankind we are indeed condemned to live in democracies only and would tend to agree with Shekhar Sathe even if grudgingly.

.... Well, 'a grudging' acceptance it is then... and, of course, I might be slightly biased ~ the British have lived under varying forms of oligarchy for hundreds of years, have celebrated this fact, and have done rather well by it (in the national context rather than the individual that is) as many of your countrymen frequently remind me ! !....

Julian ,a monarchist that I am, somewhere deep down I agree with you too.In my opinion Britain's parlimentary democracy with the monarch as the head of state is the best form of government evolved by humanity. The role of the Upper House of parliament in Britain ,has unfortunately with the passage of time, been made largely titular (read toothless).Today the house of lords is reduced to a body that discusses non-issues like fox hunting and suchlike. This is a sad state of affairs and has happened right before my eyes. Britain was the first country in modern times which was able to civilise herself and evolved civic institutions like the police force and municipalities headed by a mayor. British Imperialism and the industrial age that it ushered brought the benefits of modern technology like the post and telegraph , railways and western education with the ideas of liberty and equality to the colonies as well. This later led to the blossoming of democracy in former colonies like India. I tend to think that a representative who is chosen for a particular tenure cannot really do justice to the role assigned to h/er as man by nature is selfish and would pander to personal shallow goals and also those of the political party that s/he represents. The role of the House of Lords being hereditary was in a way a check on that. I agree with your view that you’d rather be ruled by a peerage who serve their country as a matter of 'honour' and as a matter of 'duty does hold water.The call ‘for king and country’ is stronger than that ‘for our motherland’ by anyday. It however amuses me that in a country that has served as a role model for nascent democracies the world over, including my own, could not allow Scotland and Wales legislative assemblies? Bicameral nature of Indian democracy gave us vidhan sabhas (lower houses / legislative assemblies) and in few instances even a Vidhan parishad ( upper house) in every state with a governor who is the representative of the president. Was this the cardinal mistake that led to the movement for the demand of a separate Scottish parliament? Regionalism (in certain places cultural chauvinism manifesting itself as jingoism) is on the rise worldwide and is only going to grow with the passage of time. India’s diversity is the greatest strength of our democracy. A legislative assembly and the formation of states on the lines of languages were safety valves that our founding fathers were able to factor into our democracy and they have acted as our greatest glue. While I do not deny that there have been demands of secession in Nagaland , Punjab /Khalistan) and Kashmir (the latter two fomented by our hostile neighbour) but eventually the ideals of democracy have prevailed with separatist leaders joining the mainstream as either parliamentary candidates or MLAs (members of the legislative assemblies ). Modern avatar of democracy is a new fangled idea I agree with you which we are stuck with but democracy per se is an old concept which existed in ancient Greece and even India (during the times of the 16 mahajanpadas with sabha ( parliament) and samiti ( legislative assembly or a gathering of councilors if you will ).

Digvijay ~ Both Scotland and Wales do indeed have ' legislative ' assemblies of their own ?... The Scottish one has significant tax raising powers and is largely independent of Westminster on many purely 'Scottish' matters ... the Welsh assembley is more like a local council (if a rather large one)... This 'devolutionist' (so-called) tendancy was introduced by the socialist government that came into office in 1997 ~ and might very well ~ in due course ~ see the break up of the ' United Kingdom'... not a very productive or practical application of 'regionalism' if you ask me ! The ' government ' that presently leads the Scottish Assembley (the SNP) is in favour of total independence from the rest of the U.K. and is proposing to hold a referendum on this issue within 3 or 4 years. 'Regionalism' is a very dangerous force, in any country, once unleashed and given shape.

PS. It is the House of Commons, rather than the House of Lords, that will have the power to decide on the future of fox-hunting in Britain. It is, at present, banned and illegal ~ but if this situation is to be changed (which seems to be very likely) ~ the decision will rest with elected representatives and not with the Peers...

Well Julian that is a really sorry state of affairs then. However the death knell had been sounded when UK began sending two separate soccer teams for England and Scotland to the world cup. Soccer is a religion in the UK and I wonder why couldn’t Britain have a national team like she does for cricket for soccer and rugby too ? It is indeed ironic that Her Majesty’s most celebrated secret agent in reel life (recognized worldwide ) is in real life the most vociferous supporter for Scottish secession. More often than not, the mushrooming of regionalism is a response worldwide as a counter to a predominant culture being imposed on regional ones. In a way one of the primary reasons for the implosion of the Soviet Union was the imposition of Russian language and culture on all the other 14 (so called) republics. The demand for a separate Quebec is understandable given that the French and the British cultures have been at loggerheads for a long time and have in fact evolved separately although there is a just the channel separating them but then the American cultural imperialism being beamed down to our living rooms is the primary reason for the Wahabis of the world getting even more consolidated and the clash of civilizations theory. The firm assertion of a separate Marathi identity and its manifestation in the form of NCP (Nationalist Congress Party) in India’s most cosmopolitan city Mumbai can be attributed to plum jobs in govt. and the private sector all going to non-Marathis. This cultural assertion by way of insistence on all shop hoardings and glow sign boards being in Marathi and not in Hindi or English is a natural outcome of the aforementioned. As I stated above greater democracy is the answer to this (and not repression) alongwith the reform of the Maharashtra’s local education system which ill eqips the locals from landing plum jobs within the state/ metropolis. Californication and Punjabification of our cultures in India would most certainly lead to the rise of regionalism unless preventive steps are taken soonest.

Re: " Soccer is a religion in the UK and I wonder why couldn’t Britain have a national team like she does for cricket for soccer and rugby too ? " ... The England cricket team (not the British cricket team) recently beat India 4 - 0 ... sorry to bring that up.... and ~ if soccer is an English form of religion, then I must be an atheist...

Julian ,the scale of violence unleashed by soccer fans in Britain is legion and does not have a parallel much less a precedent even in Brazil, Argentina, France or Germany which are avid soccering nations. Maybe you are an ailurophile among a nation of dog lovers ?

... No ~ I've no time for cat's Digvijay ~ I'm firmly within the ' dog lovers' camp... The sort of ' hooliginism ' that you are referring to above is largely a thing of the past. The mass brawling (which was often highly organised) that occured on a regular basis at football matches during the 1970s and 1980s has been more or less stamped out (alcohol is banned at games and there is a heavy police presence ~ those who start trouble recieve stiff ' penalties' ~ pardon the pun)... I dare say that there is the occasional punch-up at a match, or outside of the ground ~ but that is to be expected ~ football being a sport that encourages the participation of neanderthals ... I enjoy reading your articulate posts Digvijay ~ but, I'm afraid to say, that your references to British culture are often rather innacurate....

Thank God, so am I. I abhor cats and cat lovers both (Tiger, of course, is a different ball game and I am passionate about conservation.) First time in my life I am without a dog as a pet. Just adore them and incidentally English boxers are my favourite. I am happy being a homo erectus ( pun un-intended please) if football belongs to the Neanderthals ! Hey c ‘mon on now Julian …be a sport, any references to British culture that you find unpleasant are unintentional for goodness sake. And yes I enjoy going through your posts just as much …in fact look forward to them. Cheers

.... Not ' unpleasant ' Digvijay ~ merely ' inaccurate ' ! ...

Well ,then you are there to set the record straight. :)

... perhaps I should have some business cards made up ? ' Mr J. Craig ~ British Cultural Attache to the Rare Book Society of India'...

Why merely an attaché ? You are a full fledged cultural ambassador your excellency.