Hello Subbiah, Thanks for finding these videos. It is fascinating to hear something you have been told about but find hard to imagine in action. I fear that I would probably have not been a diligent enough pupil to have learnt a whole book like that. Nick Balmer

This is indeed fascinating. When recited by a large group of brahmins, it mesmerizes. The system of chanting must have evolved in earlier times to enable posterity to memorize. The memory bank builds as more verses get added. Vedas may be apaurusheya (unattributable to one man or said to be attributable to no Man, hence attrbutable to God) in that sense. Some times I wonder if it would have been a good idea to join a pathshala when I was eight! Can RBSI get the entire 55 hours of rendering from the Veda Shastrottejak Sabha?

You know what the funny thing is ? As soon as all these wonderful texts (the Vedas, the Brahmanas and Co.) were written down, we have all promptly proceeded to forget and hence ignore them. My surname is Trivedi ... but I havent read a single one yet, let alone memorising them (which by the way I would LOVE to do). Its on the cards ... picture abhi baaqi hai, mere dost.

Shekar Sathe : I did buy the entire Rig Veda (37 cassette tapes of 90 mins.each)....and donated it to a College Library. Felt it might be more useful there.

I hadn't realised that they spent so long reciting these verses at a time. My curator friend told me that families (and or groups of priests) broke the Vedas up into sections, and each group or family was the custodian of a specific section passing it on down through the generations. She explained to me that research had shown that such was the desire and pressure for accuracy that modern recordings from across India had shown that even where these texts had travelled over large distances and time that they were very similar and that they had not deviated much in the telling. Does this accord with what you find today? How long would it take a trainee Brahmin to learn these verses? The time taken speaks to me of a society that either had quite a surplus of food so that a section of its population could devote a great deal of time to the task of learning these Vedas, or one where the time required to collect food and do the daily task was very much shorter every day than it is today.

RBSI: May be we should try to get it on DVD. I am sure, the Sabha would approve and that would be a better way to store than on an audio tape. The brahmins who can render those with the corresponding (vertical and horizontal) nods of their heads are on way to extinction. Can you do that as an RBSI project? The matter is already there on the magnetic tape.

@Nick Balmer: One reason for maintaining an Oral Tradition was> As The Vedas are considered as the "Breath of God" "the Sensible(sense of hearing) form of the Transcendental Reality", " the Heard Word of God"... hence the name "shruti"; fervor was one of the reasons to hold them in Oral Form for quite a long time even after writing was discovered.In the Vedic Schools of yore, the students are strictly prevented from writing down. Even today in the traditional schools they are not allowed to keep books. Notes could be taken individually by the student, from his memory. But to the teacher he is expected to recite from memory only. Several devices to remember the original order of words along with the three swaras(intonations) are in place. One of them is the different forms of rendition like krama, ghana jaTaa etc. Strictly speaking Veda Vyasa is supposed to have "divided" The Vedas in to "four" only with the idea of making it of a manageable size for the human memory. Tradition has it that if maintained only in the Oral form it has the power to accomplish what the Original Rishis "saw" the mantras accomplished! This is of course a matter of faith. Every other supporting shastra/ ritual/technique that came up later was to supplement this process of remembering the VEDA as it was conveyed to the original Rishis. So much emphasis is placed on correct pronumciation, right intonation and the right order of words and syllables, that one is not considered to have passed a test unless he is 100% correct. As they say, it is either 100% or 0%. You are in or out. "Does this accord with what you find today?" YES. Once the correct shakha(branch or style of rendering) are stated by a person claiming to have mastered it, the rendition by people from different and unconnected parts of India are identical. If there is a difference this will be rebuked and there will be a 'sadas' - an assembly for sorting out and weeding out anything not of genuine lineage. It is not that corruption esp of texts and order do not happen. But, in august assemblies these are put to test by pundits and sorted out. How long does it take a trainee brahmin to learn these VEDAS? It might take upto 4 years for a full time student. By full time it means about 10 hours of practice per day. Further, they are also compulsorily taught the sutras of the rituals to be performed using the Mantras. All these go to reinforce the learning. For the special "pathas" like pada, krama, ghana jatA etc.. it will take another 3-4 years. In the days when Kings ruled India they used to bequeath property to the teachers and scholars of the Vedas, that they never had to worry about food. In the Vedic Religion, the financial support given to Vedic Scholars is considered the greatest puNya. So, rich people vied with one another to do this service. There were Kings who conducted various Vedic Sacrifices, to keep the learning going. That was almost a status symbol. P.S. We, a group of about 10-12 of us chosen from our organization, have, in a small way started learning the Krishna Yajurveda TaittirIya SaMhitA. It is our endeavor to learn this shakha fully. Our teacher Sh. Vishveshwara Shastri who incidentally happens to be on FB has said that we will be able to recite the Veda flawlessly but with the aid of a book for the "text" in about 4-5 years. In the meantime we will get to learn the sutra and application parts. Hence we will shape into good Vaidikas: this is his fond wish.He might try to teach us a spattering of the Ghana and Krama parts. We need to wait and see to where we will reach. Even though we are just in the beginning, and we may never measure up to anything against the fully dedicated experts we are thoroughly enjoying the learning, and as per my(our) personal belief seeing the salutary effects of the recitations/learning.

I had the chance to "listen" to the very short -- typically just one line of text from the PuruSha sUktam (R^ig Veda rendered in pada, jaTA and ghana pAtha.. What I found useful was the moving pictograph that would help a real student of the Veda if only he had the help of a kindle kind of arrangement with this software done...

One question for Mr. Sharma. Learning to chant and understanding what you chant are two different things. Now that we have the printed word and the digital record, learning to chant memorizing and learning to dance or sing. Now that the vedas are under no further threatof extinction, enthusiasts must spend more time in understanding them not memorizing them. Don't you agree?

Hello Mahadeva, Thank you for your very full reply. Good luck with your endeavour, learning the Vedas. Nick Balmer

Mahadeva Sarma : I have heard that the power of the Vedic Chant is by itself as great as its meaning. Its effect is purportedly on the subconcious and unconscious mind. What do you have to say on this...

Mallika, literacy is known to have a direct negative impact on the oral transmission capabilities of individuals as well.

@ Sekhar Sathe: I think the answer what I wanted to give has been made by Subbaiah Yadalam. True. The Vedic Chant itself is of sufficient power to accomplish what the Rishis "saw". The effort of trying to understand The Veda is called Arthavada. The word arthavada is sel-explanatory, I suppose Satheji, Isn't it? There are two schools of thought among the Vedic Seers themselves. The Kautsa, [as also of the Prabhakaras school of pUrva-mImaMsa] school says that the Veda Mantras must not looked at for meaning. Many of the current Classical Vedic schlars hold this view. They must be religiously chanted in all those ways enunciated by the Rishis of which we know now[through RBSI's publications. There is the other school which recommends arthavada-- it must be the Jaimini school of pUrvamImaMsaa. MaharShi Jaimini says that once after perfecting the chanting of The Vedas one should delve into its meaning so that one's knowledge is complete. But then the pUrvamImaMsaks are interested in applying the Veda for the various rituals formulated to encompass humans private and public life.Thus this is a yAjNika view point. The great commenatator of The Vedas SayaNaacharya is an avowed yAjnika. But the "meaning " of The Vedas is much beyond the Ritualism. For instance the Vedantins like Veda Vyasa to begin with then Bhagavatpada Shankara, Bhagawan Ramanuja and the later Vedantins look up to The Veda esp. the Upanishad parts for the goal as apprehended by them, viz., attainment of Moksha. Personally I feel there is more to The Vedas than these two, view points too. In this sense I agree with Sathe. Yes, we must spend why some, if necessary a lifetime to understand The Vedas. But if only I express myself I will incur the ire of the Classicalists! P.S. This is also the problem in our group learning KY. They would like the meanings to be discussed. But my respected techer has already made it clear to them that must be a far goal and that there is long way to go. Though sometimes in ecstacy out Veda teacher does dwell on the meanings of some of the passages- a few of the sentences to be sure, in general he does'nt want to get deeper. He has a point. Unless and until we really learn the hard way the Vedic Recitations any diversion will take us away from the goal. But you see all of us are Engineers by profession trained in the Scientific method so we are naturally attracted to getting into the meanings. So, I am sometimes required to handle some practice classes when the teacher in indisposed and not able to attend the upadesh sessions. At such times I sometimes dwell on the meanings and my sateerthyas( as class mates are called in Sanskrit/Veda Classes are understandably thrilled. But I keep requesting that they must not on this basis demand meanings to be told, for the Guru will not be happy. As per the standard practice study of the Bhasyas is the last activity. The interval is somewhere beyond 10 years to get on to Bhashya(= Commentary) study. If you are interested I think some Notes written by me on the fundamentals of SD could be read. I thing I have made it accessible to everyone.

@Nick Balmer: Thank you Nick, for your good wishes. I have a grand plan but only, God willing that should take shape.

Thank You Mahaveda Sarma....excellent and most interesting !!

Mahadeva, We should all have Grand Plans. It's what makes things worth while. My wife is really interested in the bible. She became interested in the earlier texts, wish to scrape away at the more recent additions, changes etc. to get back closer to we believe to be the words of the disciples. These early texts were generally preserved and come down to us in Ptolemaic Greek which was a form of Greek spoken in Egypt during the Roman period. So she determined to learn Greek, and it has taken her three years, but she can read it quite well now. For a couple of years the walls and doors of our house have been covered in large posters of Greek letters and phrases. It must look like spells and incantations to our visitors. I am sure that you can see your Grand Plan through. Starting is the hardest bit, but I am sure you will gain from it. We look forward to being able to ask you what it means and how it all works in a couple of years from now. Nick Balmer

@Nick A "WOW! WOW!" for your wife. I simply love languages. Greek being one of the Classical Languages, it has greater attraction for me. Actually, I am envious that she has learnt Greek. In fact I have procured a copy of a Greek New Testament which has Greek in one column and English in the other with copious notes to learn by making a correspondence between sentences and words. I like the effort she is putting. My SIL is currently residing at Israel. As she left for Israel all I could request her was that she learn Hebrew. Again I envy her. I only wish I had such opportunity to be in some of these foreign lands for a long enough period. I would simply learn that language. What more could be luckier than to be among the Native speakers to learn a language in its most natural setting! Sure, Nick I will be only too happy to share what my experiences were.

@RBSI I am addressed as Mahaveda Sarma, was it an error of the gallopping fingers or a deliberate epithet coined :) coined? Anyway thanks!

MSS : I didnt realize that at all.... and it all makes sense now...your name was actually an anagram to be discovered at RBSI !! : ) Maybe it is a prophetic peek into destiny's plan ??

@RBSI :)