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Thanks RBSI. Much searched for topic :)

name of d book pls Amita Roy :)

Thank U Amita Roy :)

These days I feel Sanskrit origin ascribed to many India languages is overdone. Sanskritisation is different than being originated from sanskrit. Many India languages are getting anglicised now. A thousand years from today it should not mean that Indian languages originated from English! I am discovering many (numerous) words in Marathi which have Tamil origin and not a trace of Sanskrit. By saying this I am not belittling Sanskrit as a language or its place in the Indian culture.There is no doubt that Sanskrit has had the most lasting influence of Indian languages. But it is quite likely that the languages we speak existed independent of Sanskrit; even predate Sanskrit!

Not all Indic languages follow the norms of saMskR^ita grammar to the dot even though they derive many/most of their grammatical constructs from saMskR^ita. Not to mention a lot of vocabulary (derived and/or exact). This has been the case since long ago, and is not a modern phenomenon. If I recall correctly, pata~njali in his mahAbhAShya on pANini-'s aShTAdhyAyI classified these derivative languages as apabhraMsha. Today they are known as the sundry regional Indian languages. Well, most of them.

Sanskrit has the singular, the dual and the plural. No other Indian language has the dual! In fact no other language in the world has that? That a language should have the dual is fascinating but obscure.

Most of the modern Indian languages have their roots in Prakrit Languages rather than sanskrit.They have picked up Sanskrit words due to close interaction. In fact the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region had Prakrit as the language of administration in third century B.C. Kushans originated from there .The capital of this region is Kashgar ,also known as Kashi. The word Prakrit means one that occurs due to prakruti i.e. nature & Sanskrit is one that occurs due to Sanskruti i.e. culture or religion. Shourseni,Ardhamagahdi,Marhatti ,paishachi are some of the Prakrit languages. Apbhransh : The meaning of Apbhransh is `Vulgar' or `Impure'. Apbhransh is not a single language but there are many Apbhransh languages which were born from various Prakrit Languages. Apbhransh languages were spoken between 500CE to 1000CE. Western Hindi, Khadi Boli, Urdu, Punjabi languages have their roots in Shourseni Apbhransh language. Eastern Hindi has its root in Ardhmagdhi Apbhransh Marathi and Konkani languages have their roots in Maharastri Apbhransh & Tamil. Bangla, Udia, Assamese and Bhojpuri languages have their roots in Magdhi Apbhransh Gujrathi and Rajasthani languages have their roots in Nagar Apbhransh Kasmiri language has its roots in Paishachi Apbhransh....

Ajit Pimpalkharekaka: We can't call the Sanskrit and Prakrit as different languages. They are not at all different entities. The language stream which was polished and restricted by elites with grammatical laws of various Panini came to be known as Sanskrit. These are two parallel streams or progressions of dialect in which one(Sanskrit) has a fixed constructed path and the other with several branches has imitated it by preparing its grammar based on the grammar of Sanskrit. Prakrit Languages have their grammar-texts based on the format of Sanskrit Grammmar.

Its like the Marathi language being spoken in Pune and the same language being spoken in other pockets of Maharashtra. Only the thing is Sanskrit is restricted by the rules of Paninian Grammar, so we can not coin new forms of verbs, declination or compounds in it. Ajit Pimpalkhare

Hemant Rajopadhye, Both Prakrit & Sanskrit belong to Indo-european group of languages. These languages perhaps developed side by side with Prakrit being the language of the masses & Sanskrit being the language of the Darbar & ritual. Prakrit grammar experts such as Vararuchi--Prakrit Prakash] [3rd century B. C.] ,Hemchandra-- Prakrit vyakaran [ 12th Century],Shubhachandra [1418-1450] were also experts,authors & authority on Sanskrit grammar. Vararuchi also invented Sanskrit "Katpayadi " method of remembering complex formulae. While Prakrit & Sanskrit grew side by side and perhaps under the same group of experts the spoken languages were Prakrit Apbhransh such as Marhatti apbhransh. Therefore we have to admit that major Indian languages evolved from Prakrit rather than Sanskrit. Grammatically both are similar as the same experts were supervising the development.Still Sanskrit retains some major grammatical differences over the regional Indian languages.

Ajit Pimpalkhare 'Prak-krit' the word it self denotes their ancient and original nature. What you are saying is true in one sense, since the Vedic language which it self in way is near to the> Prakrit dialectical form.What you are saying in a way is true. But then just beacuse, being a language of Elites, we can't keep Sanskrit in a different chamber. Thats what I wanted to say. Rest, nothing to disagree with you. Just I would like to give one typical example, That in Rgveda, we find a construction in a hymn as ''प्रति त्यं चारुमध्वरम्'' this त्यं, meaning to him (accusative), which becomes तं in classical Sanskrit resembels with the 'त्यो' in Marathi the dialectical form of तो meaning HE. I just want to say that we can not treat the rural Marathi with the urban marathi with such difference. Same is the case with other Prakrits. One thing, one must admit, that this 'Shaurseni', 'Paishachi', 'Maharashtree' and other dialects were spoken and used in literature by most of the populations and Prakrit Scholars. 'Vararuchi', himself mentions that there are several thousand Prakrit dialects are existing in small pockets. It means that these above mentioned prominent dialects influenced the major populations and established their seperate identity, the same is the case with Sanskrit, the 'Language Of God in the Land of Men', as mentioned by Sheldon Pollock. It is very difficult to prove the independent identity of these Languages.

This is just the tendency of progression of these languages.

Brilliant discussion...quite enlightening ! Thanks Ajit Pimpalkhare and Hemant Rajopadhye !

Hemant Rajopadhye, Brilliant analysis on your part. Languages of India grew together & any attempt to compartmentalize them is not only stupid but would divide the country. Each language has it's beauty & they are all interwoven .You have rightly pointed out that they belong to whole of India rather than any region or community...

Thanks A lot Ajit Pimpalkharekaka. Your appeciation means a lot to me. Beyond all the theories and all the analysis of knowledge. What you have mentioned about the individual beauty of Languages and ther same parenthood as the thread of Unity of our NATION is far more Important. Thanks a lot Ajit Pimpalkhare and Rare Book Society of India.

RBS, thanks for your appreciation.

Always look forward to a great discussion such as this ...espcially since we have ringside chairs ! : )

:))