Read Book Online : http://www.archive.org/stream/ScientificKnowledgeInVedas/Scientific_Knowledge_in_Vedas#page/n1/mode/2up

Download pdf Book : http://ia600109.us.archive.org/9/items/ScientificKnowledgeInVedas/Scientific_Knowledge_in_Vedas.pdf

THNX FOR THIS LINK RBSI

Wonderful book!

I read with delight a matter which I had heard in person from the very mouth of the author Shri P. V. Vartak in 1976-77. I had the fortune (cannot say good or bad) of spending several hours with one Dr. R.P. Thatte, a scientist who worked with the Marconi Corporation post WWII and later was a senior scientist working on the nuclear defense strategy for the UK. Dr. Thatte was a physicist and a member of the initial team of Dr. Bhabha. I had attended Dr. Vartak's "presentation" at the instance of Dr. Thatte who himself had felt that Indian Rishis had somehow anticipated modern science! The book revived my memory of that meeting which had left me dumbfounded and feeling stupid (then for attending the meeting) as it does now (for reading the book). To say the least, the book is hilarious in places and is blessed with flights of fancy (if one s charitably inclined to say). Such writing denudes whatever merits the vedas may have as a body of thought. I don't understand, why many people) like Dr. Vartak bend backward and forward, to the left and to the right) to credit our ancient Vedas with our modern knowledge they could not have possessed. That our ancient people were smart and intelligent is without doubt. That our astronomy was fairly elaborate and astoundingly accurate is also beyond doubt. But to make claims such as those contained in the book is not even laughable. To claim that our ancients traveled in a jiffy to the North pole or to South Americas and back speaks volumes about the quality of this astounding piece. In one place Dr. Vartka claims that is astral self traveled all the way to Jupiter and Mars and made observations later made by unmanned space flights! I tried calculating the speed of light from the values given by Vartak which he claims to yield 186K miles per second from Upanishadas to no avail. People like Vartak remind me of the Soviet scientists who claimed credit for all the discoveries of modern science. It is precisely such stuff that make us the laughing stock, worse, in our own eyes. I would like to caution all those who think this is a wonderful book. This contains nothing but yarn spun from some mystic sense of know-all wisdom. Nasadiya Sukta is a first rate, fantastic composition. It's merit lies in what it is - a poem - a statement of wonderment of a philosophical mind, period.

I was anticipating your review Shekar ! Thanks. : )

Shekhar, I am feeling deeply hurt. Do you venture to suggest that it wasn't Shrungamuni who originally derived Schrodinger equation?

To give a sample argument: The star Agasti is 15 light years from earth. Proof? Agasti Muni swallowed the sea - which is called Jaladhi in Sanskrit. Now Jaladhi also is a number name in Sanskrit for 10 to the power 18, that is 15 light years away in miles! Another sample a la Vartak: Who says speed of light is inviolable? Manjovam, speed of mind is many times faster than speed of light. Now Deepak, can you find fault with these statements?

However Shekhar I enjoyed the book because it was an attempt at trying to explain some of the stuff we find hard to believe in the vedas. In certain parts of the book I can see what you're saying, however in other parts I think the book is making a good attempt at touching on stuff we need to look into.

For example, the space travel part, yes, you have a point, but the medical points made I really enjoyed (for obvious reasons). With the amount of claims made by all cultures to the point that today many are trying to claim that the Arabs created Zero, it was nice to see a book that might give us some other clues to what our ancients may have contributed to the world, while the other claims we can just roll our eyes to. :)

Unfortunately, all the good points (merits) get lost in the hyperbole. The ancient Rishis may have had some insights in some matters including "shalya chikitsa", but to say that they possessed the body of knowledge modern man has acquired is a bit too much. There can be no objection to benefiting from those insights, but to say we had plastic surgery, or test-tube babies or to say we have an atman which weighs 10 to the power minus 53, spacecrafts, airplanes........ or the Vedic Rishis knew about existence of blackholes.....One can debate and put right claims and counterclaims about who invented zero (there is a dispute whether it was an invention or a discovery) need to be settled as a matter of debate/arguments/proofs which are verifiable. There are hardly any clues in the book, there are only fantastic claims, vaguely argued. Vedas contain more than one cosmogonies. Nasadiya Sukta is one of them. Purusha Sukta is another. The book is a worthless piece of writing. I cannot make any other concession to it. As Indians if we want to achieve something, let us focus on challenges on hand and not try to clutch at Vedic straws to cross the oceans of knowledge. Let the glory of our ancestors belong to where it belongs. ...

As Indians if we want to achieve something, let us focus on challenges on hand and not try to clutch at Vedic straws to cross the oceans of knowledge. Let the glory of our ancestors belong to where it belongs. ... I really love what you said here! So true!

Dr.Vartak was a crank and I am suprised to see so many learned people appreciating his laughable theories.Why do we imagine that there can be any scientific knowledge in Veda? Vedas were essentially books laying down religious ritual.They do not even have logic ,leave alone scientific knowledge. We had achieved progress in Astronomy,Geometry ,arithamatic etc.We were ahead of time in terms of Bharata's Natyashashtra or having six religio-philosophical schools simultaneously,but this advances were in confirmity with the science available then. One thing is very clear no society ,[even one with Rishis] can cross the limits of its own time and advance. a society can be maximum50 years ahead than the surroundings.So to talk about light years ,nuclear knowledge in Vedas shows our stupidity and not our ancestors'.Our ancestors were wise people who were more bothered about Varuna making rainfall,Indra giving prosperity or Kubera giving wealth.Do not try to prove somthing which just didnot exist in those times.

Veda's are not about religious rituals alone. That is a small part of the corpus. It deals with all manners of issues, including cosomgeny etc. While Vartak may or may not be correct, a lot of critisim is severely ill-informed.

@ Satykam,I would appreciate if you can point out which part of Vedas deal with cosmogony .every religion has a myth of the creation and Vedas are no exception.Comsmogony in vedas is very vague statements such as " at the start there was word etc." Rigveda is organized in 10 books, known as Mandalas, of varying age and length. Each mandala consists of hymns called sūkta (su-ukta, literally, "well recited, eulogy") intended for various sacrificial rituals.The Yajurveda (Sanskrit यजुर्वेदः yajurveda, a tatpurusha compound of yajus "sacrificial formula', + veda "knowledge" is organized chapter1.-2.: New and Full Moon sacrifices 3.: Agnihotra 4.-8.: Somayajna 9.-10.: Vajapeya and Rajasuya, two modifications of the Soma sacrifice 11.-18.: construction of altars and hearths, especially the Agnicayana 19.-21.: Sautramani, a ritual originally counteracting the effects of excessive Soma-drinking 22.-25.: Ashvamedha 26.-29.: supplementary formulas for various rituals 30.-31.: Purushamedha 32.-34.: Sarvamedha 35.: Pitriyajna 36.-39.: Pravargya. Sama Veda is nothing but collection of Suktas from Rigveda which are to be sung.Atharva veda deals with Jaaran ,Maaran,mantra ,tantra and Medicinal mantras which again is religious part of medicines. So the topics are mainly rituals and superstitions.

Well if you at start with nothing but vague statements, it shows that you are already predecided to reject information not in tune with your thought process. It is easy to call anything as vague, in itself a very vague way to approach knowledge. I do not think there is any value in dealing with cliches. Thank you.

Satykaam,I would very much appreciate if you can refer any Sukta in any veda which gives specific scientific information on creation.I have given a brief outline of Vedas are organised . If there is a definite scietific statement it will stand regardless of my views.If you do not know of sucha statement then it would be better to say so. Early Vedic ideas about the creation of the universe are speculative. The Ṛig Veda uses a variety of metaphors to convey the act of creation, including building, shaping, weaving, and sacrificing. The gods (devas) are said to produce and order the material universe, including themselves. Alternatively,Agni generates heat in the primaeval waters to produce sun and rain, and then the various worlds. The relatively late, tenth book of the Ṛg Veda contains a number of well-known cosmogonic hymns; one, Ṛg Veda 10.129 (Nāsadīyasūkta), contains a series of paradoxical statements and provocative questions about the origins of everything, ending with what seems like radical uncertainty. All said and done this is not science.

The Vedas are not puerile babblings of rustic troubadours, but sedate out-pourings of exceptional minds in quest of God. Early Rig Vedic hymns were composed between 6,000-1500 BCE. Like indestructible gems they have come down during many thousands of years in spotless perfection. From the Vedas they evolved the Upanishads, whose copious enquiries into the nature of man, the Universe, and God, strike us with speechless wonder. They evolved the most perfect language in the world, Sanskrit, with a scientific alphabet and perfected vocabulary, and a grammar which is itself a great work of art. Their intellectuals vying with each other, propounded six systems of philosophy explaining man, universe, and God, before which Aristotle's and Plato's theories look like juvenile endeavors, which fell flat on their own country-men. They discovered the Earth's dual motions, and studied the courses of constellations and stars, and founded the twin sciences of astronomy and astrology. They probed the human frame, and perfected a system of medicine for the welfare of the body, evolved the science of Yoga for the health of the mind, and the Tantra Shastra to develop the psychic and esoteric forces latent in man's being. They brought out Dharma Sastras to guide man's conduct in society, Grihya Sutras to guide the conduct of house-holders, and a unique science, Meemamsa, prescribing sacrificial lore for the attainment of individual and national prosperity. They codified the laws of sanitation, town-planning, architecture, sculpture and enunciated the principles of music, dancing, and the art of love. They laid down principles of state-craft, and of the art of war, with human and animal strategy, with physical weapons, or shastras, and enchanted weapons or astras. The English knowing world began to read of the greatness of Indian civilization in the 18th century. Scholars, one after another, caught glimpses of its luster, and becoming curious, slowly unveiled the enveloping shroud and gaze with ever growing wonder at is astonishing extent. Russian, German, Italian, Swedish, French, and American intellectuals also turned their telescopes on the Indian sky during the period, and expressed their appraisal in no uncertain terms. But the bulk of the English educated public of India are still unaware of its rich past. Source: Sanskrit Civilization - G. R. Josyer International Academy of Sanskrit Research. p. 3-4

I have to agree with Satyakam, whether Vartak is legit or not, but to knock down the Vedas is not correct. All Upanishads are associated with one of the five Vedas—Rigveda, Samaveda, Shukla Yajurveda, Krishna Yajurveda, and Atharvaveda. I recall from our medical school text for Embryology, it clearly stated that the earliest known knowledge of exact embryology came from the Upanishads which stem from the Vedas. The text is the standard text for most medical school in North America and if you want I will dig out to give you the ISBN.

It is indeed astonishing to see this debate doubting the greatness of Vedas either as a religious, philosophical, ritualistic or even scientific text for those ancient times...based on an ill-written book of a cranky author. To elaborate on what Sumer Chauhan has hinted in his comment above...I give below an extract from an interesting article on "History of Anatomy in India" by Dr.Lakshmi Rajgopal, Dr.Govind N Hoskeri, Dr.Pritha S Bhuiyan, Dr.K Shyam Kishore : "The Vedas were followed by other writings. The Brahmanas, which can be considered as guidebooks for the Vedas, came next. Aranyakas and then Upanishads followed Brahmanas. Upanishads contain knowledge acquired sitting around one teacher in the "Guru-Shishya tradition" where the disciples sit around the teacher and learn. One such Upanishad called Garbha Upanishad (1400 BC) describes the development of embryo in an astonishingly precise manner: "From the conjugation of blood and semen the embryo comes into existence. During the period favourable for conception after the sexual intercourse it becomes a kalala (one-day-old embryo). After remaining seven nights it becomes a vesicle - budbuda. After a fortnight it becomes a spherical mass pinda. After a month it becomes a firm mass. After two months the head is formed. After three months the limb regions appear." Similar descriptions are also found in the teachings of Vag Bhata, Vishnudhara and in Agni Purana. This accurate description of the embryo in the Upanishad, which predates microscopes, is truly amazing as it matches almost accurately with the present-day knowledge of embryology. Seven days old embryo is indeed vesicular and is called blastocyst. The description of formation of the head and the limb regions, also, more or less, matches with the time of their development, as we know them today. " Read more at : http://www.kem.edu/dept/anatomy/history.htm

Thanks RBSI!

@ Sumer and RBSI ,you are confusing between Vedas and achievements of early Indians.I have given several achievements of early indians including Bharata's Natyashastra in my first post ,but that is not Vedas . Secondly what makes you think that I am trying to knockdown the greatness of vedas. Vedas as religious books were great for those times when rest of the world was plunged in darkness but to say that they contain modern scientific knowledge without giving an iota of proof is bit unpalatable.SusurtaSanhita and CharakaSanhita can hardly be called 'Vedas'. Garbha Upnishad says 1] ----From relish of food, blood is created, from it flesh, thence fat, bones, marrow, semen. By the combination of semen and blood the embryo (garbha) is born,------ The modern science says that the embrayo is created by a combination of female egg and semen and not by blood and semen. 2]------If [at the time of impregnation] the parents are agitated, the child will be blind, crippled, hunch-backed or stunted.------ Such things are congenital disorders which occur due to a number of reasons. They have little to do with the how agitated the parents are at the time of sex. The author of this Upnishad , Pippalāda is systematic and rational but he describes the basis of life mystically and not scintifically as he is bound by his time,brilliant he may be.

Ajit, plain bias. Not worth discussing. In fact as I said, you put out your biases very early to see, so thankfully I will not have to waste time on explaining anything.

very nice

Satyakaam ,here I am a man with bias according to you who is discussing vedas and quoting chapter and verse in support ,and here are you supposed to be without bias, who is just sidestepping the issue after making a statement without any support or basis. If Vedas have scientific knowledge your illustration or reference will stand regardless of my so-called bias. I am writing this with all feeling of friendship and goodwill.Any knowledge has to be supported by facts or examples. Knowledge is truth and not empirical or mystical statements. I would quote only one Sanskrit shloka for everyone to ponder. न चोर्यहारं न च राजहार्यं न भ्रात्रुभाज्यं न च भारकारि व्यये क्रुते वर्धत एव नित्यं विद्याधनं सर्वधन प्रधानं -------It cannot be stolen by thieves,nor can it be taken away by kings. It cannot be divided among brothers, it does not cause a load on your shoulders. If spent... it indeed always keeps growing. The wealth of knowledge... is the most superior wealth of all! All the best to you in your quest.

Thanks Ajit...whatever may the disagreement... it is graciousness that finally wins ! I admire your attitude.

Ajit, Veda's will stand for themselves, your statements are not likely to dent it. It is merely I who has opted out for reasons I have mentioned. :-) Further, have you heard of Godel's incompleteness theorem? If you havent please look it up, it might help.

^^ To understand my perspective I meant.

Well said Qamar Rehmani :..."Scientific studies ought to be replicable, meaning that a study should produce the same results if repeated exactly. One thing about science is that there is no absolute truth – every theory will get replaced with new knowledge."... This awareness will turn our sense of certainty to a sense of wonder... when we are challenged with new ideas !