Read Book Online : http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924104225473#page/n3/mode/2up

Download pdf Book : http://ia341309.us.archive.org/2/items/cu31924104225473/cu31924104225473.pdf

The horse series must definitely be for Shekhar Sathe!! :)

@RBSI: You seem to have taken some of my posts re Chanakya seriously. But what Marco Polo said about no horse breeding in India is amazing. He said, the Arabs kept up their horse trade merrily as horses shipped to India would die in a year and the Arabs would keep up the supply.

Shekar : I have not deleted any of your posts ! The sudden disappearing act of comments...happens on FB sometimes. Please refresh a few times a let me know. Been hearing such complaints recently. Btw...your comment on horses was enlightening... : )

I am tired of these FB threads misbehaving. I do not get notifications often of other people answering my comments and therefore get left out of the discussion.... :(

Oh ! I stopped receiving notifications long long ago....

Is it because of the sheer number you must get? I have also noticed that this happens when the notifications are numerous, too many to cope with maybe?

Maybe this is good....we'll get the necessary respite in a way. : )

Unlike the vast Steppes, or Arabian grasslands that fed the native horses that arose from the nomads of Arabia and central Asia, the grasses of India did something to the vigor of the horses bred in India - hence a constant demand for horses (and ready jobs for horse tribes as cavalry officers. 250,000 horses a year were imported, in the first half of the 18th century from the central Asian Steppes. There used to be a cultural hierarchy during the cavalry culture until the 20th century. I you had two horses, you could start a new line of work as a highway robber. With success, by the time you amassed the command of 10 horsemen, you became the local Hood. Those who had 100 horses achieved fame as kings.

Wow!! I've been missing horses, too....are you psychic?!! :))

It is interesting to note that some of Hindu Gods have horses as their vehciles like Lord Surya (Aditya), the Sun Temple with horses at Konarak and old texts like 'Ashwa Sastra' detailing the techniques of rearing horses!

Interesting, Gouri!! I feel that the horse owes no debt to society, but we sure owe the horse a huge debt of gratitude for the role they have played in advancing society. We should rRetire them all into an idyllic setting...green grass, good hay...to show our appreciation!! :))

@RBSI: I don't think any posts are deleted. It seems to be just a problem with notices.

@Gouri Satya: It wil be interesting to see the "Ashwa Shastra" you talk about. Is there really such a text?

@Lynne Hadley: We a lot many debts to a lot many other animals including those which we cut, boil, roast and eat. The Ashwamedha Yagna was also a horse sacrifice. The horse was buthchered after the Yagna. I wonder what the second word of the compound word "Ashwameadha" means. We all know that Ashwa means a horse.

This is true, Shekhar. But of all animals, the horses and oxen have contributed most to agriculture, don't you agree? Giving a man digging a furrow with at best, a single blade mouldboard plough and thus sowing a small field with a necessaily sparse crop, the ability to plough a larger field with a thicker, more productive crop? And thus, supply grain over a much wider seciton of the population? Hmmm...having written that, Shekhar, it occurs to me that maybe we shouldn't be thanking them for helping us to foster the cult of consumerism which is the bane of our lives today? Although I think that given their 'druthers, the horses and oxen would have chosen to spend their lives soaking up the sun in that idyllic field, rather than hauling a plough around it!! :))

Medha-Medhas means sacrifice. It is a horse-sacrificing Yagna conducted by kings to enlarge their kingdom.

@Shekhar Sathe - I remember to have read that the Oriental Research Institute in Mysore has a manuscript. Authors of 'History of Kannada Literature' have also mentioned about it.

there is a beautifully illustrated, old text regarding horses and their treatment(medical) in the Saraswati Mahal Library at Thanjavur.

@Amita Roy: I understand There are several fertility rites like the one you described and are said to be remnants of the matriarchal society. That Rigveda should contain such primitive rites may not be much to the liking of the proponents... of the apaurusheyvaadis. These things are not talked about much as they could be quite embarrassing. But it must be interesting to know the details so that we can understand how our primitive ancestors thought about many things. The fertility rites are not peculiar only to Indian antiquity. I understand they are to be found in many cultures.

@ SS Hello, Good morning, wake up please! A piece of information like this is not news to anyone who has even a nodding acquaintance with ancient Indian culture and theology. Reams have been written about this and it has been analysed to death. Why precisely are these rites 'embarrassing'? How can any ancient rite be embarrasing ? I get a hint here that you assume that anyone who reads the Vedas will hate it and it is only people who have not read it and know nothing about it who idolise it. Read them. maybe you will change your mind and stop being embarrassed.

Aswamedha - Sanskrit is called a 'twilight language'. When we read it gives a general meaning. This is the darker side, which sheds no light. But there is an inner meaning or a concealed meaning. This is more important, as it sheds light on the genuine meaning which the author has couched or concealed in the words. This is true of Aswamedha also and its rituals. The literary meaning may be a horse sacrifice. But 'Medha' also means 'intelligence. There is a word 'Dharma Medha' in Yoga Sastra. It does not mean 'Sacrifice of Dharma'! We derive intelligence and wisdom from Sun God. His vehicle is drawn by seven horses (Ashwinis). Why 'Aswamedha' cannot be a ritual connected to the worship of Sun God (Surya) for wisdom eternally sought by our Rishis? @Sumedha - Appreciate your comment very much! The fertility rites are not 'embarassing' as you rightly say. 'Fertility' is again creation. It is the worship of creative force, Ishwara, in another form. All the major civilisations have observed fertility rites and worshipped those symbols. Nothing to be ashamed about it. Again, only those who do not know the significance or inner meaning of these rituals condemn it, feel embarassed about it!!

@Sumedha Verma Ojha: Fortunately or unfortunately, I am not a historian. The reams of paper which may have been written about the primal instincts and crude rituals of our ancient people are kept away safe from public gaze. I agree with you that there is nothing embarrassing about them and to that extent I stand corrected. I am embarrassed that learned people generally do not talk about these things. Just as ancient rites cannot be embarrassing, they cannot be glorifying also. think the rites and the philosophy our ancient peoples is an organic whole and one cannot be separated from the other. I will request RBSI to research and put out the relevant texts for our edification. I wish to give no hints but wish to state directly, that anyone who reads vedas, should develop a perspective in totality about them, about the people who made them, about the society which engendered them and not pull the unsuspecting, gullible bystanders into the trap of believing into politics of today based communal hatred and religious fervor. Thanks for the alarm bell, but it was too shrill. And please do not presume that admirers of vedas have read and understood them or critics have not read and not understood them. Are we not all in the business of finding truth and debating ideas? By the way, (in a lighter vein) people who sing vedas, nod their heads up and down all the time! No offense meant, Mahadeva S Sarma. I could not resist the pun because I was accused of not having even a nodding acquaintance about the vedas, an accusation I accept in all humility. @Gouri Satya: I did not know "medha" meant sacrifice. Thanks for opening my eyes to a mistake I was making. I thought medha meant wisdom or insight. The distinction between the two words is on account of a single "matra". Medh means sarifice and medha means insight (or inner voice - wisdome of inner voice). So Sumedha means nice wisdom, not nice sacrifice. Aswahmedha means Horse sacrifice and not horse wisdom. Again, no offense meant. And thanks for helping me keep my inquiring mind alert.

@ SS Yes I had the impression that you had some kind of communal politics in mind and do so at all times when we are debating. Perhaps it would be as good to leave this vitiating taint aside when we talk? Vedas are neither to be glorified nor to be embarrassed about but to be read and understood, if you wish, otherwise can be ignored. You would also do well to think that all of us here you love/ appreciate what is written in the Vedas and Upanishads do not do so for some vested interests but due to the influence of what we read and understand upon us. This shrill warning hopefully will reverberate when you consider what we write. I am not in the business of communal politics but personal enlightenment . knowledge and understanding.. You are right about my name, it is also one given to the Devi, I selected it at the age of 15 from the Bhagwat Purana when I changed my earlier name. Now will sign off from FB for some time. Keep the argument going.... :)

I like that Sumedha Verma Ojha, that some one should select one's own name, that too at such a young age. That shows the ability of a person to make informed choices. I don't like hidden meanings and always appreciate straight comments.

There are so many interesting discussions going on simultaneously....that I have seem to have lost track of them. I am also exhausted by the number of 'likes' I've clicked. : (

@Shekar 1. In the days of "Debating truth and Funding ideas" you r bound to be proven wrong 'n 'communal' . 2. But u r right and I nod @that!!. Medhas belongs to the general domain of बुद्धी . Three kinds: 1.प्रद्न्या-intelligence , 2. मेधा- धारणा: storage , प्रतिभा: novel thinking. 3. 'Sacrifice' meaning appears more akin to the intended usage here though. Semantic spheres are to be carefully explored wrt particular context. 4. Nothing sacrosanct really about fertility rights !! They are clearly reflections of patriarchial push which happened as u correctly pointed out ;with the advent of agrerian style of living. 5. Since I ain't too learned , I may as well say that "ashvmedh" is reflection of Sadomy instincts prevalent in those days or atleast present in the mind of the person who wrote the episode. The episode is so humiliating to 50% of populace , that I expect no glorification: shrill or otherwise.

@Uday Gokhale: Sodomy not sadomy. I dont' know how ancient sodomy as a practice is. It may be feudal and perhaps npt predate that feudal period. The aswamedh practice may not be sodomy. I dont know frankly what sense to make of copulation with a dead horse by the queen. I also do not understand how that can be a fertility rite. Why the queen? Why a dead horse? Human mind whether modern or ancient is a labyrinthine place. It is better we be cautious when delving deeper in inquiry.