Read Book Online : http://www.archive.org/stream/sacredkuralortam00tiruuoft#page/n9/mode/2up

Download pdf Book : http://ia700108.us.archive.org/22/items/sacredkuralortam00tiruuoft/sacredkuralortam00tiruuoft.pdf

Thanks to Amita Roy for suggesting this book.

Great choice!

@Amita Roy. Values are values. Can they be hyphenated as Aryan and Dravidian? The myth was false and it is entirely political.

On a related note does anyone in this group know that Oxford University has the oldest extant Mahabharata, and apparently other ancient Indian manuscripts in their possession. The story I heard was that at the turn of the 19th century they had a Nepali guy buy ancient original Indian manuscripts from Benaras and other places for mere pennies and turn it over to them The library has documents to prove they bought it, though how above-board it was is anybody's guess. A professor at RIT is working to collect money so he can pay Oxford fees to digitize some of them. Imagine Indians having to pay Ooford to digitize what belongs to India's collective heritage.

@RBSI: and Niranjan Rao:Why not? Let us pay and get those digitised. At least the British library had the vision to conserve our heritage. (I would condone even if they deployed some underhand nethods to get the manuscripts). If RBSI were a properly constituted and funded body, I am sure RBSI would do this.

Shekar : Inspiring thoughts ! I guess it is high time....

@MsRoy- This space is not sufficient to carry on a debate on Dravidian vs Aryan Ethos. There is a clear reference in Tholkappiyam to inspired vedic verses.The facile divisions of North vs South, Brahmanical vs Dravidian culture sprang up because of the availability of evidences from the Pallava period. As a person who visited the U S A said,"I was awe struck by the manner in which they preserve their history;but then when the history itself is short,it is not a big deal.Preserving what we could of anything that goes beyond 5000 years is!" The British scholars had two items in their agenda;spreading Christianity and " breaking the very backbone" as Macaulay infamously put it.The extant evidence available from the Pallava period enabled the British and the subsequent politicians to plant and perpetuate the myth of Aryan vs Dravidian divide. Ms Roy has the right and the capability of carrying on this question further;(her favourite 'pallavi' being 'post callabra'. I shall rest my case here.

@ Amita Roy Which Sangam age are you referring to? The age for which there is some epigraphical, literary and archaeological evidence is the Third Sangam which flourished from the Third century BCE to the Third century CE. It would not be correct to say that there was no concept of the subcontinent as a political unit at this time. Since some of the epigraphical evidence does come from Ashokan pillars it could be taken to indicate that it was part of the Mauryan Empire in some way; how much and to what extent can be debated and researched. The Mauryans had a centralized administration and the area within their control was a political unit ( the exact homogeneity of this political unit is an interesting area of study).

@Ms Roy- I am sorry if you feel that any disrespect was implied. I respect you as a person and as a researcher too. Your repeated refrain- 'from Callabra period'- sounds so much like the leaders of the political parties.They are historians, researchers, seekers of truth and rationalists all enmeshed in one, besides sporting so many 'other' qualities!! I thought yours was a political view too. Thank you for clarifying that it is not. Those were the periods when everything was regional and even sociological strata were linguistic. I stand by my conviction. The culture was the same. What is known as 'sanAtana dharmA' was spreading sweetness and light and regionalism and linguistic realities were corollaries to the ideals at the core and never were in conflict. Labels are labels and are functional only as identities. To read beyond labels and to perpetuate myths of domination and subjugation is the result of warped rationalizing of post Enlightenment mind which loves to see an 'evolution' or 'restoration' in cultural histories.

@ AR Your points are well taken. There is definitely need for more evidence on the exact political situation the Sangam Age. However, a categorical statement like , no concept of India existed at the time, may not be a very useful point of departure for considering this issue. In the light of the fact that a political unit, whose boundaries we need to learn more about, did exist beyond dispute in or around that period. Tolkappiyam,Manimekalai and Silappadikaram, the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea,Pliny and Ptolemy's records are all post Mauryan and their contents can be said to be indicative but i do not see how they support your theory. The state of evidence, of course, is far from suggesting that the Sangam Kingdoms were a conventional part of the Mauryan Empire, I would certainly hesitate to state that. The exact nature of the relations would need more research.

Another link for pdf download : http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7219369M/The_Sacred_Kural

@Amita Roy- '...literature does not mention anywhere about vedic religion directly or indirectly....' is patently absurd. I wonder if the person who wrote this knows Tamil at all, has read these works to perorate with authority that there are no references.

@AR. I thought working on history without reading the literature and studying the language in depth has been discredited after interdisciplinary studies became important and usuful. So the 'attempt' and desire to understand language is same as studying in depth and understanding how it works. That's news to me. We were talking of literature. You were quoting references to rulers and their recorded deeds. I will confine myself to ThirumurugAtrupadai. It begins with 'seyon meya' seyon is the exact equivalent of Kumara. Nakeerar the poet, while listing Kumara's six faces and their functions, states -'andanar velvi orkummey or mukaham' - translated one of the faces protects the sacrifices of the brAhmins. It is in tune with what Sankara later said of Kumara 'mahi devam' lord of the brAhmins. He calls himself a dravida sishu in Saundarya Lahari( which some say refers to Thiru gnAna Sambandar). This story about agastya cursing Tholkappiyar is it part of history?Thank you for the refernce to the book on Agathya. I am now determined that I shall not try to convince anyone who is keen on perpetuating the myth of Aryan-Dravidaian divide.

@RBSI and Shekar Sathe: While I am sure Oxford has done a good preserving those manuscripts, asking private individuals to pay upwards of 2-3 million US dollars to digitize a manuscript amounts to extortion. This is the figure I was told the library was asking for the Mahabharata.

Well, let us see if we can raise 2-3 million Dollars? Antiquity never comes cheap!!

2 3 million dollars... :(

Mr Rao Could you possibly expand upon the information that you provide above ? While I am not doubting the substance of your remarks they do seem to be ,well, based on unsubstantiated rumour ! Could you pass along anything more solid? I should be interested to learn more about this particular "case" (as it were)... For example, is it the Bodleian Library, Oxford that you are referring to ? Regards etc.