One of my fav places in Delhi

Its actually a Mausoleum and a Sacred Place according to Islamic Traditions yet when i was there i was shocked to see that the grave of Humayun was uncovered (without Chadar)

The first Mughal Tomb and as Amita Roy says, the first garden tomb built in India. The gardens were laid out in Char bagh style that was started by Babar. It is also the first tomb with double dome, one for external proportions and one for internal proportion. Another first is that the dome is mounted on a drum. It also witnessed the end of Mughal dynasty when the last Mughal Bahadurshah 'Zafar' was arrested from here along with his sons by the British. His sons were murdered at Khooni Darwaza and Bahadurshah 'Zafar' was exiled to Rangoon after a Kangaroo trial in his own Red Fort.

I read somewhere that the idea of the double dome was mainly to reduce the weight of the dome. That may be true since some older domes (like the one on Sultan Balban's tomb in Delhi) had collapsed.

Mughal painting,a main aspect of mughal study!!!!!!!!orign of mughal paintng cn b traced bck in kabul under Ulugh Begh 2,d timuraid ruler of kabul bfre d advent of babur!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ulugh Beg is better known for his work on astronomy and mathematics than as a ruler. It is sad that he was quickly deposed.

Asad: The idea of double dome to reduce weight seems to be contradictory as it would put the weight of 2 domes on the structure. I believe that the double domes came in as a mile stone for maintaining the inner and outer proportions.

Souravi: The atelier for Mughal miniatures was started when Humayun came back to Hindustan in 1555 and brought back with him 2 painters viz. Abdus Samad and Mir from Herat. It is these 2 who started the atelier. And then Akbar continued with the tradition, commissioning the illustration of Babar Nama. The art reached its zenith in the time of 4th Great Mughal Jahangir.

Asad: Can you tell us a bit more about Ulugh Beg? Who was he, whose son etc....... I know of him but don't remember if he was related to Timur or someone.

Poor Humayun! Despite all their other great accomplishments, it has been said that the Moghuls were poor stair-makers.

ya i knw it reached its apex undr mir saiyad ali nd abdul samad!!!!!!!!thanks a lot 2 u all fr enriching my knowledge!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean: The Sher Mandal in Purana Qila, where Humayun fell on the stairs and died a few days later, was built not by the Moghuls but Sher Shah Suri. I have noticed that each stair is rather high. Perhaps the Afghans were taller than the Moghuls.

Pulin: Of course, Ulugh Beg was a direct descendent of Amir Taimur. However, he was more interested in Astronomy than Statecraft and was soon deposed by some court intrigue. I will check more about his scientific contributions and let you know. He is my favorite in the House of Taimur.

Asad: Thanks for the info re Ulugh Beg. Yes I'd be interested in knowing about him. Incidentally, all stairs had high risers in old days, and I believe it was for security reasons rather than the people being tall. Higher the riser, more difficult to rush up the stairs. Look at the risers in what is known now as Birbal's house in Fatehpur Sikri......

Pulin: Thanks. Obviously, they did'nt have a code of building standards at that time! Regards.

Sean Maloney: Mughals were not poor stair builders. Should see the various kinds of stairs at Fatehpur Sikri built by 3rd Mughal Akbar the Great during 1569-72AD, including cantilevered stairs, that looked like folded slab stairs, out of sandstone. The risers were high often a foot high and treads were small often with depth of only 7". I feel that was more for security reasons to prevent enemy from rushing up the stairs.

Pulin...that was an obvious tongue-in-cheek reference to Humayun's fatal fall. But..thanks for the interesting staircase info.

@ Pulin...i really appreciate your knowledge..2 things i want to say..u are right about the tread and riser ratio...it was for security reasons to prevent the quick climbing of stair by enemy..even a slight push will throw enemy down..from stair.. another one is about Double dome..sure it was to reduce dead weight of dome..the mass was reduced..the outer and inner forms were different but inner dome catered to inner space while outer was used for elevation..if you are very keen on understanding the technology of double dome..u must find out about the Double dome of florence cathedral.. perheps the biggest double dome in europe continent..it was an architectural challange rather structural challange and was ..solved by an architectural competition by models in those days..perheps it was Brunalleschi who won the design competitions...what all i write is based on memoery..i can be wrong with few facts.. but pl check..if u find it right pl confirm..jay ho..anup dave

@ Pulin...do u know why the name FATEHPUR SIKRI was given to a new city?

Pulin: Haha. I am glad Anup seems to support the view that the idea behind the double dome was to reduce its weight. I have seen a diagrammatic cross section of the great dome of the Taj Mahal and there is empty space between the two layers. I wonder if the massive Gol Gumbaz dome (world's largest) has the same plan. Anup: The name Fatehpur Sikri was given to the village of Sikri by Babur to commemorate the Battle of Kanwa (1526) nearby. It remained a small place until Akbar made it the capital in honor of Sheikh Salim Chishti. In addition to Pulin, our friend Dijvijay is also an expert on that city. He claims to have received the blessing of the saint!

Asad: Gol Gumbaz at Bijapur is the largest dome in India. Will have to send you a sketch of how this dome was supported and surmounted on the square structure below. I shall check on the double dome theory to see if it was to reduce the weight. Normally speaking the weight of both the domes come on the same square/octagonal structure below. So now we have 2 domes being supported by the building. But let me check and revert back here.

Anup: I disagree that Fatehpur Sikri was named so after Babar's battle with Rana Sanga. Sikri was the village pre dating Akbar's time (probably even Babar's time) and the word Fatehpur was added by Akbar after to celebrate his victory over Gujarat in 1572 by which time the main complex of Fatehpur Sikri was constructed (See link http://www.mughalhistory.com/jahangir.htm). Babar a pucca sunni, would not have called it Fatehpur, but rather Fatehabad, as 'pur' was the Hindu suffix for city/habitation.

Pulin: This is true that the combined weight of two domes (of a double dome) is placed on the platform beneath - but it is still less than the weight of a massive, solid single dome. There is plenty of hollow space between the outer and inner layers (as seen in the Taj Mahal dome) so the weight of a double dome could'nt be that great. About the naming of Fatehpur Sikri, there is some confusion and you may be right. Akbar did trumpet his victory in Deccan joyously as indicated on a large Persian inscription on the inside wall of the Buland Darwaza in Fatehpur Sikri. Abul Fazal mentions that the word 'Fatehpur' was added to 'Sikri' to celebrate this victory. But there are others who connect it to Babur, but Babur himself says nothing about renaming it. Maybe it was both. (I did have this reservation in mind when I commented on Anup's question to you.) As far as I am concerned, a 'pucca sunni', a 'pucca shia', and a 'kuttar hindu' are birds of the same flock. If Babur was a pucca sunni, how come he used to drink wine like a fish? I think he has been grossly misrepresented in India by recent political events. Also, the word 'pur' was also known in Iran, like 'Nishapur' in Khorassan - a city that was razed to the ground - and ploughed over- by an order from an angry Chengiz Khan for the death of his son-in-law. The new city was rebuilt adjacent to it after some years. Now I have a question from you. Is the Tughlak dome in Delhi (the one with marble on top) a double dome? If single, it has lasted for an impressively long time.

Asad, even when there is a single dome, the dome is hollow from underneath. It is not like the hemisphere is solid. The weight is that of the shell of the dome.

Pulin: Thank you. I will soon provide some information about Ulugh Beg Mirza as I promised.

Asad, I am planning to scan the different type of arches and the structure of Gold Gumbaz at Bijapur today and will send you the same for your perusal.

Pulin: The following biography of Ulugh Beg is taken from the internet with minor editing: Ulugh Beg (1394-October 27, 1449) was a Taimurid astronomer, mathematician and sultan.The grandson of the conqueror Taimur(1336 - 1405) and the son of Shah Rukh. (The Indian Moghul dynasty originated from Taimur's third son Mirza Miran Shah). Ulugh Beg was born in Sultaniyya in modern-day Iran. As a child he wandered through a substantial chunk of the Middle East and India as his grandfather expanded his conquests in those areas. With Taimur's death, however, and the accession of Ulugh's father to much of the Taimurid Empire, he settled in Samarkand which had been Taimur's capital. After Shah Rukh moved the capital to Herat (in modern Afghanistan), sixteen year-old Ulugh Beg became the shah's governor in Samarkand in 1409. In 1411 he became a sovereign of the whole Mavarannhar khanate. The teenaged ruler set out to turn the city into an intellectual center for the empire. In 1417 - 1420 he built a madrasa ("university" or "institute") on Rigestan Square in Samarkand, and invited numerous astronomers and mathematicians to study there. Ulugh Beg's most famous pupil in mathematics was Ghiyath al-Kashi (circa 1370 - 1429). His own particular interests concentrated on astronomy, and in 1428 he built an enormous observatory, called the Gurkhani Zij. Lacking telescopes to work with, he increased his accuracy by increasing the length of his sextant; the so-called Fakhri Sextant had a radius of circa 36 meters and the optical separability of 180" (seconds of arc). Using it he compiled the 1437 Zij-i Sultani of 994 stars, generally considered the greatest of star catalogues between those of Ptolemy and Brahe. The serious errors which he found in the Arabian star catalogues (the authors had simply copied from Ptolemy, adding the effect of precession to the longitudes) induced him to redetermine the positions of 992 fixed stars, to which he added 27 stars from Al Sufi's catalogue from 964, which were too far south for observation from Samarkand. This catalogue, the first original one since Ptolemy, was edited by Thomas Hyde at Oxford in 1665 (Tabulae longitudinis et latitudinis stellarum fixarum ex observatione Ulugbeighi), by G. Sharpe in 1767, and in 1843 by Francis Baily in vol. xiii. of the Memoirs of the Royal Astronomical Society. In 1437 Ulugh Beg determined the length of the sidereal year as 365.2570370...d = 365d 6h 10m 8s (an error +58s). In his measurements within many years he used a 50 m high gnomon. This value was improved by 28s 88 years later in 1525 by Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543), who appealed to the estimation of Thabit ibn Qurra (826-901), which was accurate to +2s. Ulugh Beg was also notable for his work in astronomy-related mathematics, such as trigonometry and spherical geometry. When his father died in 1447 he became ruler of the Timurid Empire. Within two years he was beheaded by his own eldest son, 'Abd al-Latif. Eventually, he was rehabilitated by his grandson Babur- founder of the Mogul Empire - who placed Ulugh Beg's remains in the tomb of Timur in Samarkand. There archeologists found them in 1941. In honour of his achievements, a crater on the Moon has been named for him - 'Ulug Beigh' - by the German astronomer Johann Heinrich von Mädler (1794-1874) who proposed the name in his 1830 map of the Moon).

Asad, I think I have been misunderstood when I said Pucca Sunni. I was trying to explain that he hadn't been influenced by Shiaism at that time, unlike his son Humayun who spent his exile from India in the court of Shah Tahmasp and was deeply influenced by the Shia culture, which continued in the later generations. And at that time, Shias were more liberal than Sunnis. That is how Humayun brought back with him the 2 miniature's painters from Herat who started the Royal Atelier and rest is history as shown by Mughal Miniature paintings, or the carvings in Turkish Sultana's room at Fatehpur Sikri depicting lions and birds and trees which are not allowed to be depicted in Islam - the reason for Islamic art going great guns in arabesque. Re Nishapur, I have heard about it but I'd say that it was an exception rather than the rule. The rule was genrally speaking, that city founded by Muslims in India ended in .....abad and cities founded by Hindus ended in .......pur or puri. Hence Babar naming the city Fatehpur seems unlikely unless it is an exception. Re the dome on Ghiyasuddin Tughlaq's tomb, it is a single dome in marble. So are the domes on Sayyid & Lodi buildings, which have also lasted. By the way did you know that his actual name was Ghazi Malik who was the Governor of Multan appointed by the Khaljis? When he found a vacuum at Delhi upon the death of the Khalji dynasty, he moved in. I hope I have been able to clear what I meant when I said Pucca Sunni, somewhat...........

Asad, Thanks a million for the note on Ulugh Beg. I knew he was buried in Gur-Amir but thought he was Timur's son.

Oh no, Pulin, there is not the slightest misunderstanding! You are right that the names of Hindu cities generally end with 'pur' or 'puram' while Muslim cities end as 'abad'. The word 'nagar' seems to be common to both. Nishapur in Iran is an ancient city and was probably named before the Arab conquest. I was actually amused by the term 'pucca sunni'. There are people like that in every religious group. Thus the demarcation is not between pucca sunnis, pucca shias, and pucca others - but 'pucca' religious people versus 'moderates' of every group. I am convinced that the 'pucca logs' - devoid of any other ability or qualification - are the ones who misuse their religious orthodoxy as a means to muster power in society. Religion, instead of being observed as a code of civilized conduct, becomes a pedestal for their power. Thus when I see 'pucca Muslims' or others walking around in their medieval garb, it is obvious that they are trying to send a message of 'sanctity' that they may not possess. Unfortunately, this type of hypocrisy is true for every religious group - no exceptions - and is responsible for the tragic strife and divisiveness that exists today. There is much less of it in the west than in India, but it is still there. Actually, Shah Tahmasp tried very hard to convert Humayun to the Shia faith but could'nt do it. On the other hand, Humayun's main advisor Bairam Khan himself was a Shia Turkoman, so it is all mixed up. Yes, the positive Persian influence over language, culture, architecture etc in India started with Humayun. I feel Babur is vilified in the Indian press because of politics, but his conduct is no different from that of any other conquerer of the past. After all, he had the same genes as Ulugh Beg! If he was a 'pucca sunni', why did he go to meet Guru Nanak on his way? or ordered the preservation of the gigantic naked Jain statues in Gwalior Fort? or preserved the grand Bamiyan stuatues? It is just that he had no opportunity to rule as he spent all his time extending his dominions. But he was a brilliant warrior and author as is evident from his 'Babur Nama'.

Pulin: Many thanks for sending me the information about various types of arches and the cross section through the Gol Gumbaz of Bijapur. Obviously architectural skills were highly advanced in India and I knew so little about it. It is a shame that this highly developed Bijapur dynasty was extinguished by Aurangzeb. Thank you again.

Pulin: Regarding your doubt about the naming of Fatehpur Sikri, Professor L.F. Rushbrook Williams writes, and I quote "Babur defeated the Sanga Rana (Sangram Singh) of Chitorgarh on 16th March 1527, after sustaining a severe check from this Prince in the previous month; it was from Babur's victory that Sikri received the name of Fatehpur. The Rana, who was the bravest Hindu warrior of his day, refused to return as a defeated Chief to Chitor" (in 'A Handbook for Travellers in India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka'. John Murray, Publishers, 1975). There is much misinformation going on. For example, during a visit to Fatehpur Sikri earlier this year, a 'Guide' (probably self-appointed)emphatically told us that the Rana defeated Babur!

very interesting information gentlemen. The agha khan award was bestowed upon the restoration of this magnificent structure few years ago.

Asad: Here is something from internet (Wikipedia - which I agree is not always right) too re Sikri which you might find worth considering: QUOTE: Fathehpur Sikri (Hindi: फ़तेहपुर सीकरी, Urdu: فتحپور سیکری) is a city and a municipal board in Agra district in the state of Uttar Pradesh, India. Built near the much older Sikri, the historical city of Fatehabad, as it was first named, was constructed by Mughal emperor Akbar beginning in 1570, in honour of Sufi saint Shaikh Salim Chisti, who lived in a cavern on the ridge at Sikri, and foretold the birth of his son, who was named Prince Salim after him, and later succeeded Akbar to the throne of the Mughal Empire, as Jahangir. Fatehabad later acquired the name Fatehpur, and gave rise to present name Fatehpur Sikri.[2][3]It was the first planned city of the Mughals and also first one in Mughal architecture, an amalgamation of Indian architecture, Persian and Islamic architecture, and served as the Mughal Empire's capital from 1571 until 1585. Though the court took 15 years to build, it was abandoned after only 14 years because the water supply was unable to sustain the growing population.[4] and unrest in the North-West.[5] Today, the complex of buildings, including the extant royal palaces, courts and the Jama Masjid is a popular tourist attraction, and was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1986.[6] The site itself is a ghost town, though the city has a population of 28804 as per 2001 census.[7] During the Mughal era, the founder of Mughal Empire, Babur in his memoir Baburnama mentioned it as ‘Sikri’, when he visited it on the eve of Battle of Khanwa on March 16, 1527, at Khanwa a few miles away.[9][10] After he defeated Rana Sanga of Mewar in the battle, which gave him control of North India, he subsequently built a garden, a Jal-Mahal (Lake Palace), and a baoli (step-well) commemorate his victory.[2] Akbar had inherited the Mughal Empire from his father Humayun and grandfather Babur. During the 1560s he rebuilt the Agra Fort and established it as his capital. He had a son and then twins, but the twins died. He then consulted the Sufi saint, Salim Chishti, who lived in a cavern on the ridge at Sikri. Salim predicted that Akbar would have another son, and indeed one was born in 1569 at Sikri and survived.[11] He was named Salim to honour the saint and would later rule the empire as Emperor Jahangir. Here after the second birthday of Jahangir in 1571, Akbar then 28 years old, decided to shift his capital from Agra to the Sikri ridge, to honor Salim Chishti, and commenced the construction of a planned walled city which took the next fifteen years in planning and construction of a series royal palaces, harem, courts, a mosque, private quarters and other utility buildings.[12] He named the city, Fatehabad, with Fateh, a word of Arabic origin in Persian, meaning "victory", it was later called Fatehpur Sikri.[7] UNQUOTE I would like to draw your attention to the 3rd last line in the last paragraph. While what L F Rushbrook Williams says is what he believes in, I do believe that all of us have to read various accounts and then arrive at our own conclusions. No where in Babarnama does Babar mention Fatehpur Sikri as being a city named by him. But as I said, we all have to arrive at our own conclusions on what could have been.......... Wouldn't it be unlikely that Akbar who built this city, personally supervised it (miniature paintings show him doing so) would not have a hand in naming it? Akbar who was a bit of megalomaniac (He was good and great, but he also knew that he was good and great) and I do not mention it in a negative manner as he had much to show that he was great.

Pulin: The factual information you have provided is all correct, but the question remains: Who named it? I found Rushbrook Williams statements about Indian history to be highly reliable and unbiassed. Anyway, I will check Abul Fazal's 'Akbar Nama' once again to see what he says. At the moment, I am in favor of it (then a village) being named after the Battle of Kanwa since I see no reason why Akbar should have named it after his victories in Deccan. One of the most readable tablets about his Deccan victories is located just inside the Buland Darwaza in fine Persian script. Regards

Was't the Buland Derwaza commissioned to commemerate the victory over Gujarat?

Yes, yes, Digvijay. Since you can read Urdu- Persian well, you would like reading this tablet in red stone inside the Buland Darwaza. Welcome back after your tiger-hunting trip.

I will most certainly the next time I am there.For me the huge chowk behind the Buland Derwaza in front of the Shrine of H Salim Chishti (r.a.) is amongst the holiest places on the planet ! Many thanks .My trip was more about historical locations of M.P. actually .

Apparently Jahangir never had a chance to stay at the Jahangiri Mahal that the Raja of Orchha had built for his friend.

I saw that in Orchha few days back.Interestingly the MP govt. provides guard of honour to Lord Ram there before Aarti !

Please give us more details of the ceremonial guard of honor.

Well as the story goes the idol of Ram Lalla was brought from Ayodhya to Orchha by a Rani of Orchha.She used to carry Ram Lalla in her lap on the day of Pushya nakshatra (considered most auspicious) only every month. The Raja of Orchha got built a grand temple to house the diety. Ram Lalla is the 'baal swarup' of Lord Ram like Laddoo Gopal is of Krishna so they have to be taken care of like a baby and they supposedly get hungry every few hours !! Upon reaching Orchha the Rani in her excitement went strainght to the kitchen to supervise the preparation of pakwaans (delicacies) and out of sheer exhaustion of the long travel and/or the satisfaction of having reached home safely after a long journey dozed off . Meanwhile Ram Lalla slipped from her lap on the floor. So interestingly Ram Lalla stands housed in the royal kitchen of the palace of Orchha ! The story seems probable because the adjoining grand temple constructed just to house Ram Lalla stands desolate to this day. The ruling dynasty of Orchha who are desecendents of the legendary Chatrasal Bundela had to abandon the palaces of the forts of Orchha for neighbouring Tikamgarh on the advise of a bard/saint. A palace of the the fort is now with MP tourism where it runs a restaurant in a colonnanded air conditioned hall with eight rooms done up tastefully which operate as a hotel with beautiful view of the fort ramparts and the river Betwa, There is a sound and light show which is held there in ther fort premises every evening. Earlier the guard in state time was offerred by the ruling dynasty of Tikamgarh's forces but it is today conducted in the royal rasoda ( kitchen) compound just before the saanjh (evening) aarti. The Salaami gaarad (guard of honour) to Ram Lalla is unique in a secular country !

Thank you. It maybe that the guard of honor is intended to promote Madhya Pradesh tourism. Chitrakoot, a related site (near Banda), is also an interesting place to visit.

indeed it is ...have you been there? It is a place with a legend attached to it with the Ramayana. The scenic beauty of the place is awesome.

The entire Bundelkhand area is full of interesting history and I have been to many of those places. Mahoba is an especially interesting place and some interesting archaeological discoveries are yet to be made there.